Adviser to the Head of the Office of the President Mikhail Podolyak spoke in an exclusive interview with ICTV Facts, conducted by journalist Oksana Mikhailova, about the importance of providing Ukraine with a list of reforms from the United States, about the fight against corruption and partnership.
— Why did Ukraine receive a list of reforms from the United States right now? How did the Ukrainian authorities perceive it?
— In general, as a working moment. It’s not that this is a letter that contains any demands on Ukraine as such. I would, firstly, divide it into two parts — everything that concerns military assistance has nothing to do with this or that reform process — economic, political, justice reforms and the like. The second component — these are, accordingly, the reforms themselves. We are going to the EU, to certain communities where there are certain rules. This means in the economy, and in the political space, and in freedom of speech, and in the justice sector, we mean the law enforcement agency, the judicial system.
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There is no novelty. The question is that we must fix for ourselves the importance of a certain series of reforms that should make Ukraine more competitive in two components. The first — it's economics. We must choose certain priorities for ourselves, and secondly — it's transparency. Transparency — This refers to public control over the law enforcement system, public control through supervisory boards over certain enterprises. Well, and absolutely specifically the protection of investments as such.
— That is, military assistance will not depend on progress in reforms?
— I want to emphasize that there is no speculation. Everything that concerns military support, first of all, for Ukraine in bringing the war to a fair conclusion. You and I understand what a fair ending is — where Russia loses, of course. This has nothing to do with what Ukraine will look like from the point of view of the architecture of a new type of state after the war. These are two processes. Both processes are important for you and me.
On the first side — This is, of course, military assistance. We must receive the tool we need in quantitative terms, which will allow us to move forward and de-occupy our territory. And this in no way depends on the second component, which is also important for you and me. This is increasing transparency and competitiveness of the state so that after the war, when we integrate into fairly competitive systems, and the EU, European communities — it's an extremely competitive system. By the way, we see when we discuss the issue of grain corridors, overland ones, for example, what are trade wars, what is protection, what is the protection of one’s national producers.
Yes, we must be prepared for this and must get a different architecture of the three components. First — economy, other infrastructure, second — state, other infrastructure, third — a different type of justice system, anti-corruption, judicial and law enforcement systems.
— How can we generally evaluate the reforms that have already been carried out? What has been achieved and what still needs to be achieved?
— The key thing, in my opinion, is what we will need to do — is to build a new type of economy. That is, choose those industries that can be much more promising, not remain in the Soviet aggregated economy, as we had for 30 years, then create an infrastructure that will attract huge investments here, because we will need it given the destruction that we suffered in this war. But we must find a tool to protect investments; today you can start with investments, and then get a large number of problems regarding how these investments should work. Well, that is, industries, production, investments, protection of investments, no interference of certain coordinating law enforcement agencies in the work of the economy as such.
— What about anti-corruption things that are also related to the economy?
— Regarding corruption, it seems to me that today is perhaps the most active period when we, firstly, talk about corruption, clearly understanding where this corruption is, how it manifests itself, and secondly, we are looking for tools, even despite the war, again , actively attack corruption cells, third, reduce the distribution burden on the state, that is, the state must reduce the number of functions that can monetize in the gray area. And, of course, the president has repeatedly said that we need to get rid of this desired instrument to obtain illegal income at different levels. I think that we will solve this problem over time.
By the way, corruption — one of the important moments of the foreign policy of the Russian Federation due to which they entered many other spaces, including Ukraine, distorted politics here, the elite, gave them the opportunity to feel that they can get money no matter what level of competence you have. And this created the conditions for the next expansions of Russia — cultural, informational or even military. Or we will understand that corruption — this is not good, situational, in short, someone will receive an additional $100, but from the point of view of state interests — this will lead to very serious consequences.
— What can you say about declaration as one of the components of the fight against corruption?
— I would highlight several important components. Firstly, society has a very strong demand for justice in general. Well, that is, it cannot be that society pays a huge price, respectively, at the front, respectively, in the rear, respectively, and they will donate more to the Armed Forces of Ukraine and at the same time we are gradually getting strange dollar millionaires who sit in government positions. Society will not tolerate this, especially against the backdrop of a war that has been going on for 19 months. We share a certain emotional background with you. This is the first component.
The second component — There is no doubt that we need to respond quickly to this. The President clearly responds to the needs of society that he feels. And regarding open declarations — It is important to understand why certain people do not want to declare something, some wealth that they have received in the last 19 months. This is a partnership. Successful states — these are those that have a partnership between society and state institutions. If this partnership does not exist, and, unfortunately, today we can, if we do not make certain adjustments to the model of behavior of state institutions, we will not have a partnership.
And during the war, it’s not a partnership — This is a fatality. That is, then we will not win the war, because society will follow one road, and state institutions will have a toxic reputation, which will interfere with communication with society. This is very important. Corruption — it is not easy that someone received income, corruption — This is an erosion of mutual trust. And if during war there is no trust (in peacetime, if there is no trust, we know what this leads to, to revolutionary consequences, correct, fair) this will lead to fatal consequences for statehood.
— How to perceive the appointment of the US aid inspector?
— There are auditors from the Pentagon, there are auditors from the State Department, there are people in general, this is Mrs. Pritzker, who will be involved in huge, voluminous financial programs for reconstruction and infrastructure, the economy. I look at this as a more integrated partnership. This is a very important signal. This suggests that they believe in us, strategically believe in us and want to see an open infrastructure, and this is very cool. This is very good. This does not mean that there is any mistrust, no. This is how all systems work.
Audit exists everywhere, in all countries, and correct financial and economic relations are built on this. That is, you need to understand the priority, because the audit — it is not only about what is used, audit is about understanding what is needed, what is dominant, where more is needed, where less is needed, what redistribution is. And this is very important, because the United States is a key financial resource partner for us; they want to understand where they can use it more effectively together with us. It seems to me that this is precisely a symbol of the fact that, firstly, they trust us, secondly, they want to build a long-term strategy with us, and, thirdly, that they want to clearly highlight priorities. This is a qualitative symptom.
— Does the audit concern the control of armed assistance?
— If we're talking about the Pentagon — yes, it is a matter of effectively using a large volume of armed tools. See how it works — The United States allocates a certain percentage of its budget in money, but this money goes to the US military-industrial complex, that is, it creates additional jobs in the United States, it fuels the US economy, after which the United States produces it and sends it to the warehouse, and from the warehouse it is given to us. That is, this is beneficial for the United States. The question is that the Pentagon auditors, they want to see what weapons are used and how they are used, it is necessary to increase one direction of providing weapons or another. That is, they want to be in operational information constantly.
This is a promising cooperation between us and the United States, it will speed up the adoption of certain logistics decisions, speed up the supply of certain types of weapons and speed up the possibility of changing the supply situation, what we it is necessary today, and not tomorrow.
This war showed what types of weapons need to be further modernized, what to rely on, what types of production to initiate, and which to invest more in, for example, drones, long-range missiles, What shortcomings are there that need to be corrected? This huge amount of information, together with investment components, will allow us to reformat the military-industrial complex, not only ours, but this will be important for the military-industrial complex and the United States.
