Said Ismagilov was the Mufti of the Spiritual Board of Muslims of Ukraine “Umma” for 13 years. After 20 years of spiritual service, he decided to completely change his life. Now Said is a paramedic driver, rescuing wounded Ukrainian soldiers on the front lines.
About the important choice in life, common between Russia and Iran, as well as Muslims in the Ukrainian army – read in an exclusive interview for Channel 24 .
Even before February 24, Ismagilov decided that he would no longer submit his candidacy for the mufti (the highest spiritual person among Sunni Muslims – Channel 24). For almost a year now, he has been serving in the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
“I won't run away the second time”: why Ismagilov went to the front
You signed up for Terodefense in December 2021. For many weeks, Ukrainians were warned that a war would begin, but the majority of the population did not believe it. When you told your friends or relatives that you were preparing for a full-scale offensive, how did they react to this?
Most of the people I worked with didn't take all the warnings seriously. They were skeptical and did not believe. The people closest to me believed, because I can convince. I told my relatives that we should be as prepared as possible.
I have a universal quote that I always say: “We'd rather be prepared and nothing will happen than something will happen and we will be unprepared.”
How do you remember February 24 last year? Was the scale of the Russian offensive unexpected?
I woke up at half past 5 in the morning from the explosions, because in Bucha the sounds of rocket strikes were heard. I realized that a big war had begun. However, the scale I expected even more than they were. I thought that not only the Kyiv region, but also the Zhitomir region would be attacked from the territory of Belarus in order to take the Kiev region into a large ring.
However, fortunately, the Russians were not prepared for the fact that the Ukrainians would resist. They marched almost in parade formations and did not even take care of the reserves. the occupiers believed that they would easily enter Kyiv. They did not have enough combat units and the group itself was too small to attack other regions of Ukraine from the territory of Belarus.
I also thought that there would be an attack on Odessa from the side of Transnistria. Maybe there was such a plan. However, the fact that they failed to reach Odessa either by sea or by land apparently stopped the plans of Putin and his generals.
Interview with Said Ismagilov about the war and the Arab-Islamic countries: watch the video
Have you felt resentment and injustice due to the fact that Russia is trying to take away your house for the second time?
Said Ismagilov is from Donetsk. In 2014, he had to leave his home due to persecution by pro-Russian militants. In 2022, Russian troops ransacked his apartment during the occupation of Bucha.
There is no point in getting offended here. Resentment is for children. We must have constructive rage. I'm not the only one from whom the Russians took away housing twice. It was in Bucha, Irpen, Vorzel that the settlers from Donbass lived. People bought housing for themselves, tried to start a new life after they were forced to leave Donetsk. I am not an isolated case, there are many such people.
I decided for myself that I would not retreat anywhere a second time. In 2014, I had to leave Donetsk, and in 2022 I decided that I would not run away. I will defend the Motherland.
Muslims were sought out one by one: on the experience of military chaplaincy in the ATO
Even before Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine, you were a military chaplain. Tell more about this experience.
We initiated the military chaplaincy of the Muslims of Ukraine in 2015. The fact is that earlier there was no Muslim chaplaincy in Ukraine at all. However, when powerful battles began, especially near Debaltseve, Orthodox chaplains turned to me. They asked why there are no chaplains among Muslims and why no one visits Muslim soldiers at the front.
I realized that this is an urgent and necessary matter. So I went to the front. There he met a Muslim officer who commanded certain units in the Donbass. I asked his opinion on whether chaplaincy was necessary and then I realized that yes. Then I discussed this issue at the level of the Spiritual Board of Muslims of Ukraine “Umma”.
Ismagilov spoke about the beginning of the Muslim chaplaincy / Photo from Facebook of the former mufti
Some of our imams volunteered to be not civilian imams, but military imams. Since that time, our spiritual service at the front began. It was complicated by the fact that there were few Muslims in the Armed Forces of Ukraine at that time. Mostly 2-3 people in some units. In volunteer battalions, as, for example, the Chechen named after Sheikh Mansur, of course, all are Muslims.
When we visited Muslims in the ATO zone, and then the JFO, we had to look for them one by one. They found out in which unit and where a Muslim was, and then they came, prayed, and talked. The most important thing is to be near and listen to the believer.
We even had to hold Juma Prayer, a Friday prayer with a sermon, at the Avdiivka industrial zone. I married a couple of military men who served in the same unit. There was a lot of work. Now I no longer work as a chaplain, now I am a military driver in a paramedic crew.
Paramedic praying at the front / Facebook photo by Said Ismagilov
You have completely changed your previous way of life, you have been at the front for almost a year now. How has it changed your character?
In fact, I do not see any changes in myself. Maybe someone else saw it, but they didn't tell me about it. An adult and mature person, who perceives war without panic and fear, does not change very much.
A paramedic has been at the front for almost a year / Facebook photo by Said Ismagilov
You retrained from a mufti to a paramedic. This is not an easy profession, because in the war one has to see terrible injuries and not everyone can cope with it. How did it happen for you?
It was very easy for me. A Muslim priest – an imam – is a person who personally washes the deceased and prepares him for burial. Muslims are not buried in clothes, but are wrapped in white cotton cloth and then placed in the grave. It is the imam who directs the preparations for the burial.
I had to bury people who died in an accident, in a fire, who drowned. In my 20 years of religious service, I have seen different things. Buried children, people with a very damaged body. I didn't have any shock or stress during the war. The wounded or dead body of a person does not cause any stress for me, because this is not something new for me.
In general, in war you need to be courageous. You have to be ready for anything. You need to be constantly motivated and ready to help. Therefore, my fellow Muslims in the unit accepted this work very easily and organically.
You won’t go far with the wounded: how paramedics work during shelling
Now you are the driver of a car evacuating the wounded. Tell us how does a person driving a car with fighters who comes under fire feel? How do you deal with stress and keep a “clear mind” to act quickly?
The driver in the paramedic crew is responsible for everyone in the vehicle. In it, in addition to the driver, there is also a paramedic and maybe a medic. If there are seriously wounded, they are accompanied by real doctors. It can be an anesthesiologist, surgeon, traumatologist. A paramedic is a person who provides medical care. At the same time, a professional doctor can immediately provide more meaningful assistance during the evacuation. If a person's heart stops, he can resuscitate.
However, it is the driver of the car who is responsible for everyone in the cabin. This is a very big responsibility. I almost always have to carry not one wounded, but several, because there is no one to leave.
The worst thing is when you get under fire. It's really hard and very dangerous. If we came under fire, and I saw that mines or shells fly where we will pass, then you can stop the car and not be in danger. We need to hide somewhere – look for a trench, a shell crater, perhaps some other shelter. We had to do this.
How the wounded soldiers are evacuated / Photo from Facebook by Said Ismagilov
For example, during one evacuation from Bakhmut in the village of Ivanovskoye, the enemy covered the square where the road ran. The shells landed right on the road. Since it was right in front of the car, I just had to stop, jump out of it and look for where to hide. But you can't hide if you have seriously injured people lying in your cabin. You can't take them out and you can't hide them anywhere.
Then the driver must decide what to do – either press on the gas and fly forward, or turn around and drive back, well, or look for shelter together with the car, that is, stand behind some houses, concrete walls. Fortunately, I have never had to choose this third option.
Do you decide on this?
Yes, the driver makes the decision and is responsible.
Islam allows you to kill someone who comes to kill you
Please explain to our readers, many of whom know little about Islam, have you had to open fire?
Islam allows you to shoot at the enemy if it is necessary to do so. Muslims have often been criticized for not having a pacifist religion. Muslims do not turn the other side of their face when they are beaten. We hit back . Very often, Islam was criticized for this by people who do not understand the realities of war. When we lived peacefully in Ukraine, we thought that war would never come. However, when a big war comes, consciousness changes.
Now the Ukrainians, who criticized Islam for being a religion of warriors, motivating men to defend their family and homeland, either keep quiet or approve. After all, when the enemy comes and kills, simply destroys us as a nation, then there is no time for pacifism. Not for world peace. Need to defend.
It is in the event of war that courageous men and women are needed who are able to fight and defend. Here it becomes clear to many why Islam tells in great detail in the Holy Quran what to do during the war, how to defend yourself, how to treat the enemy, even how to pray during the battle.
Islam is sympathetic to the situation of war and allows you to defend yourself against the aggressor with weapons in your hands. It doesn’t even just allow you to defend yourself, but orders.
The Lord did not make us weak-willed, so that they would kill us, and we would simply die. On the contrary, he prescribes to resist the aggressor, to resist the sinner, to resist the one who came to kill you. Islam allows you to kill those who came to kill you.
We work with weapons in the war, but I have never had to open fire on the enemy, because I carry out the evacuation in the territory controlled by Ukraine, and not where the enemy is. However, anything can happen in a war. For example, there will be a breakthrough and the enemy will enter the road along which I take out the wounded, so you need to be always ready.
“In war, I dislike whiners most of all”
How did the situation at the front and the atmosphere between the fighters change during the year of the big war?
Everything here is very individual. It all depends on the individual and department. After all, some may be in the hottest sectors of the front, where the most brutal battles continue. However, there are areas where it is a little calmer – some periodic shots, but without powerful combat clashes. Everything depends on the situation.
I always like motivated warriors who clearly understand what they are doing and who they are protecting themselves from. What I dislike most at the front are whiners, who are not only demoralized themselves, but also have a negative impact on others with their own whining and complaints. During the evacuation, we take out various wounded.
I love fighters who say: “Here I will be cured, I will return and take revenge on the enemy for having received this wound.” However, it should be understood that war is generally an abnormal state for a person. This is a forced position. The human mind is in a state of constant stress. People have different stress tolerance. Some are calm, while others are frustrated and panicked.
Ukraine is a peaceful country. We didn't think we'd have to face a war. Although the war has been going on for 9 years, for most of our Ukrainians it was somewhere out there, far away. They heard something, saw some footage, but they did not stand in the middle of this war. Many were not ready for a full-scale war.
Said does not like whiners in the war / Photo from Facebook paramedic
Arab-Islamic countries think that Americans are fighting in Ukraine
How do the countries of the Arab-Islamic world relate to the war in Ukraine?
Russia is openly supported by Iran, Syria, and possibly some other countries. Most countries at the official level remain neutral. They do not support Ukraine, and they do not want to somehow spoil their relations with Russia. Some countries, on the contrary, help Russia bypass the sanctions, do not join in the imposition of these sanctions.
The population of many Arab-Islamic countries is under the powerful propaganda influence of Russia. The fact is that a special Arabic-language channel Russia Today has been operating for many years. He broadcasts the narratives that Russia needs, and people believe in it. Even in European countries, emigrants from Muslim countries also think that the United States and Russia are fighting in Ukraine , no matter how ridiculous it may sound.
They say, “You're just unlucky that your country has become a battlefield.” Then I always answer that I have not seen a single American in the trenches. Russia attacked and began to kill Ukrainians. I ask such people: “What would you do if you woke up on the morning of February 24, and an armed enemy who wants to kill and rape is coming at you? Would you say that these are geopolitical games, so you do nothing? Or would you protect their children and their country?”
We did not finalize not only in the Arab-Islamic countries, but in general in the countries of the East. Our information policy and international attention has always been focused on Europe and North America. Therefore, now there are consequences – the Arab-Islamic countries directly or indirectly remain friendly to the aggressor.
Said Ismagilov's appeal to the Muslims of Russia: watch the video
For Ukraine, the eastern countries have always been ignored
How can Ukraine change this situation?
We need a special foreign policy of our state bodies, which would work to explain to the countries that hold neutrality the true essence of the war. That is, the fact that Ukrainians defend their right to be Ukrainians. The Russians want to destroy us as a nation. Those who are not ready to become second-rate Little Russians will simply be killed by the Russians. At the same time, those who agree to Russification will be the third-rate population of Russia, which will be used as the population of the fake republics of the “DPR” and “LPR” – like cannon fodder.
These countries should be explained that we are defending our right to exist. Not even just the existence of the whole country, but also the individual existence. After all, the Russians do not stop even before the murder of women and children.
Every Ukrainian should be aware that now we are fighting for our individual lives. This needs to be said in the world. There must be public policy. There should be media in the languages of the target audience: in Arabic, Turkish, Persian and other languages. But who will do it? These are certain expenses, so investments are needed.
We have a lot of media, a lot of TV channels. But the stories they make do not work for the Eastern audience. They are aimed at Ukrainians and Europeans. The East is always ignored. There must be an understanding of how to talk to them correctly. Everyone says that people in the East have a very subtle mentality, and this is true. Speaking to them in the language of facts will not help. It is the Europeans who perceive the language of facts and evidence, while in the East people are trying to find some subtext of this war. Therefore, you need to know the mentality of the target audience.
Tatarstan residents want to prove that they are also “Russians” and are going to war against Ukraine
The government of Tatarstan in exile announced that at its meeting it unanimously chose your candidacy for joint work. You were called a true Muslim, a diplomat and a defender of the rights of the Tatars. What do you think about it?
This is the first time I hear about it. I did not agree to anything, and no one offered me anything. If offered, it's not mine. I have never been to Tatarstan. My parents and I were born in Ukraine. My task during the war is to protect Ukraine. I'm defending Ukraine as part of a paramedic crew. And believe me, without medicine, no country will win the war, because the losses will be simply insane, like the Russians are now. By the way, field medicine works very poorly for the enemy. In the Kherson region, we got a bag of a Russian military paramedic as a trophy. It is impossible to survive with the kit that was in it.
Now I am doing everything I can for Ukraine, not only at the front, but also in the information sphere. However, there were no such proposals.
How can the government of Tatarstan in exile and the people of Tatarstan help the Ukrainian Tatars, apart from declarative intentions? Is it even possible?
I do not believe that now Tatarstan is capable of resistance. National consciousness and national movements have long been suppressed there. After the collapse of the Soviet Union, Tatarstan declared its sovereignty and desire for independence. A referendum was held there and more than 70% of the people who took part in it voted for the independence of Tatarstan. However, all this was quickly suppressed by the Russian security forces. All the people who were opinion leaders were either killed, or thrown into jail, or they were forced to emigrate.
Now Tatarstan is very Russified. Looking at what and how is happening there, they are even more imperial than the Russians themselves. Tatarstanis are trying to prove to Putin and Russia that they are no less “Russian” than others. They organize volunteer battalions that are sent to the war against Ukraine. Tatarstan strongly supports the imperial policy of Russia. So far, I do not see what the Tatarstan people could do.
If Russia collapses into nation-states, which is very desirable for us, Tatarstan will join this process. After all, the Tatars feel like a separate nation. They have their own language, separate culture, religion, and in the past they had their own statehood. That is, there are all factors in order to become a separate and independent nation. However, whether they will be able to do this is a big question.
Paramedic in the liberated Kherson region / Facebook photo by Said Ismagilov
Spiritual leaders of Russia – FSB members
Why, in your opinion, do spiritual leaders of different faiths in Russia support the war against Ukraine and propagate it among believers?
Because they are FSB officers or act with the permission of the FSB. I am generally convinced that most of them are religious figures with shoulder straps. The cleansing of the electoral field, the cleansing of opinion leaders, including religious ones, took place after Putin came to power. Tyranny, despotism and imperial ambition make independent opinions impossible.
Since religion in the post-Soviet space is a powerful factor influencing human consciousness, Russia began to be purged of all religious figures who were disloyal to the authorities. Religious figures were actually recruited into the ranks of the special services. Therefore, now they are just ordinary FSB people who work out the agenda. That is why not one of the Russian religious figures, not a single mufti spoke a word against the war, and the majority supported it.
United outcasts: why Iran is helping Russia
When people of different nationalities and different religions unite to defend their homeland, this is understandable. However, why do countries like Russia and Iran, which declare religiosity as one of their values, unite for the sake of a criminal war?
Interests matched. Iran is a pariah country not only in the world, but also among Muslim countries . In the Muslim world, Iran has a very negative attitude due to the fact that there is a very complex form of political government and understanding of Islam. Since the Iranian Revolution, Iran has always tried to spread Shiism to other Muslim countries.
Shiism is the second largest branch of Islam. This is a very specific direction, where complete submission to religious figures. At the same time, Islam is a fairly democratic religion, where every person has the right to his own opinion. Therefore, most Muslim countries do not want to be absolutely submissive Shiites at all. At the same time, Iran has always financed and supported the Shia-Sunni conflicts in the Arab-Muslim world.
That is, Iran is always interested in promoting its power and influence, but, fortunately, it is not very successful. This country, even in the Muslim world, stands apart, it has many enemies. This is how they found understanding with Russia. Despite the absolute difference in religion, culture, language and history, these countries have common ideological foundations – imperial power, the seizure of foreign territories, the implementation of their robbery policy, etc.
“I want Russia to cease to exist”
Do you think reconciliation between Russia and Ukraine is ever possible?
In general, I would like Russia to cease to exist as a state and disintegrate into a bunch of independent states. To have separate Ichkeria, Tatarstan, Bashkortostan and other national entities. With them, after our victory in a few decades, maybe there will be a dialogue. But with Russia as such, I do not see the possibility. The Russians have absolutely no remorse for their crimes. Reconciliation is possible where the offending party asks for forgiveness, corrects and makes amends. At the same time, Russians still believe that they are doing everything right.
It is important that we should not be victims. The Ukrainians proved to the Russians and the whole world that we are a strong and powerful nation of warriors. We will be winners, therefore, it is necessary to talk with Russia or with what remains of it from a position of strength and a position of winners. We are not victims, we are winners. This should be in the minds of every Ukrainian.
Can you give spiritual guidance to Ukrainians who may have lost faith in victory?
I don't know if there are people who lost faith in our victory. We will definitely win simply because it cannot even be otherwise. Truth and justice are on our side. I am absolutely sure that God is with us and supports us . If it were not for God's support, we would not have survived in February – March of last year.
We liberate our territories in powerful battles, as was the case in the Kharkiv and Kherson regions. I was at the battles during the liberation of the Kherson region. It was terrible. During World War II, such battles were not even dreamed of. Then there were no such weapons, which are fought now. There were no rockets, there were no phosphorus bombs and everything else that is now used.
We will definitely win. It's only a matter of time. We must understand that if we do not win, we will simply be destroyed. We will not be pitied. This war has already become ontological, ideological. There can no longer be any compromise. The enemy wants to destroy Ukraine, so all that remains for us is to defeat this enemy.
Victory does not begin on the battlefield. It does not consist of weapons, although weapons are important, but we saw the Russians throw their weapons as they ran away. The decisive moment is the man and what is in his heart. Spirit always wins. Therefore, I wish all Ukrainians strength, fortitude and understanding that we have no way out but to win.
