Interview with Yulia Slivka/Photo by Natalia Bodnar, channel 24
Ukrainian author, blogger, and publisher Yuliya Slivka, even before the full-scale invasion, defended her dissertation, investigating the activities of Pamva Berinda. It was his name that she wanted to name one of the streets of Red in the Lviv region, however, the idea was quickly rejected by the inhabitants of the city. How in one of the back streets of Galicia there was a place for the protest of both the heroine herself and the people – read on.
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- difficult – about renaming a street in Krasnoye
- 2The Russians came to enslave us or at least kill us – about the war
- 3This is a muscle and its pumped with practice – how to switch to Ukrainian and realize it as a native
- 4They shipped my book under shelling – about the war and book publishing
Since 2015, the whole country has been “trembling” from the falling monuments to Lenin, and the cities of Russian leaders have gradually become Ukrainianized, according to Channel 24. Decommunization also reached the small Galician town of Krasnoye in the Lviv region, but the residents were reluctant to accept the changes. Author of two famous books “Chuesh, if you come home?” and “Nibi here, near the hati broke a little” could not even imagine that many people would rise up against her. And all because she proposed to rename one of the streets of the city in the process of decommunization in honor of Pamva Berinda.
Pamva Berinda– Ukrainian printer, lexicographer, poet and religious figure of the early 17th century. And although the place of birth of a man is still arguing, scientists are inclined to think that he was still a Rusyn (Ukrainian) by origin. As a legacy for millions of Ukrainians, Pamva handed over what only a few among cultural figures could at one time – a documented first printed dictionary of the Ukrainian language. The man created it for 30 years, so that Ukrainians in 600 years would have their own dictionary. It consisted of two parts: a translation (Church Slavonic-Ukrainian) and a dictionary of foreign words, an interpretation of common names and names of proper people.
As Julia Slivka herself said, Pamvo Berinda concluded a dictionary in order to preserve his national identity in those days when Ukraine was part of the Catholic Commonwealth. However, the “exoticism” of the name of a cultural figure has become precisely the stumbling stone that the inhabitants of Krasnoe continue to hit. Instead of Berinda, they offer July Street. Because it seems to be “easier”, “clearer”.
Yulia Slivka is the initiator of renaming the street in Krasnoe/Photo by Natalie Bodnar, Channel 24
< p dir="ltr">Why did the inhabitants of Red-Clear, as Slivka mentioned in her books, react in such a way to local changes in a small town? How does this precedent in western Ukraine serve as a prime example for many other regions when they refuse to “blame the Pushkins,” switch to Ukrainian, or rename streets? How to affectionately Ukrainianize and start appreciating one's own – in our interview with Yulia Slivka.
It is quite difficult to oppose Berinda, – about renaming a street in Krasnoe
In your home town, you decided to decommunize one of the names of Krasnoye streets in the Lviv region. From the moment the information was announced that everything was successful and the street is now called “Pamva Berindy”, and before the city, or at least some part of it, “rebelled” against you, only 3 day. This is something reminiscent of how “from love to hate – one step.” Tell me more about it.
On July 22, on the eve of the 390th anniversary of the memory of Pamva Berinda, the author of the first Ukrainian printed dictionary, the life-creation of which I studied in graduate school, I saw an announcement from my UTC about a public hearing on renaming five streets in my native village.
I come to the hearings, on one of the streets I propose to honor Berinda, and especially considering the war for national identity and the current language context, especially since the purpose of the renaming is to educate, study anew both its history and the undeservedly forgotten figures of Ukraine. All unanimously vote for. The next day, the residents of the street submit a protest protocol. Not alone. Now I am still defending the honor of Berinda, and the story continues.
Why did Red have such a strong reaction?
I don't know the exact arguments, but something like this is “I don't like it, it's hard to say, it's hard to remember”. Realizing that the surname may not be known to everyone and this is normal, I try to carry out educational activities, talk in an accessible way about such figures, including Berinda. In this case it doesn't work for some reason, but still I won't leave a chance to explain both the weight of an individual figure and the need to be very clearly identified as a nation now.
Yulia Slivka about the importance of “decolonization” of Ukraine/Photo by Natalia Bodnar, Channel 24
After all, at a time when the Russians are going to rename Mariupol to Zhdanov in order to clearly mark this city as Russian (it’s not enough for them just Mariupol is the city of Mary: it should be Zhdanov), we have the opportunity to Ukrainize the street instead of calling it something politically more convenient, And we should all take advantage of this opportunity. Berinda's surname is very useful here, for many reasons.
What could scare people more about “decolonization”, as you used to call it? Just like an “exotic” name with the last name of a printer, or something else, deeper? What were their main arguments when drawing up a protest protocol?
I explain this by the fact that people of advanced age are often quite difficult or even hostile to change. Stability is their comfort zone. And an exotic, unfamiliar surname exacerbated this. But the inhabitants of the street, whose history is followed by thousands of Ukrainians, are not only pensioners, but also my peers, the peers of my parents, teachers and even scientists. In any case, you can't oversimplify. According to this logic, not a single Ukrainian figure, even if he has done fundamental things for Ukraine, but has a surname unfamiliar to someone, long, short for someone, not euphonious enough, which is quite subjective and I also do not agree with this, will not be able to be respectful. This is absurd. It cannot be so. This cannot be an argument against Berinda by any means, you understand.
Tell me, isn't it surprising at a time when people in the west demand that others switch to Ukrainian, but are not even ready to rename a street?
It's unexpected, but I believe I can still explain the weight of this figure. These are the consequences of total Russification as well. Very insidious Russification: people do not even realize what a frivolous renunciation of the figure of Berinda is – this is just her. I think Russia is very happy when we rally against Berinda four times: a great compliment to the effectiveness of her propaganda. And in principle, it does not matter what we are going for – the July, Youth, Cathedral, etc. The fact of such persistence and rejection of the author of the first Ukrainian dictionary, unfortunately, does not play into the hands of Ukraine. The situation exposed a nerve: we need to learn our history anew. We need to at least let our children know that they will live on this street if they don’t have the strength to explore it themselves.
In general, what do you think, do Iulskaya, Solnechnaya, Glinyanaya streets have a place in Ukraine, is it better to name everything after heroes and cultural figures?
I joke that this is decommunization, but not much. Will you agree to win the war with Russia just a little? So maybe it's time to clearly identify as a nation? Maybe it's time to unite under the dome of the holy names of Ukraine? We do not know when we will have such an opportunity again. How many years do we rename streets? Will this be the case at all? And soon 400 years will be our first Ukrainian dictionary, the author of which was Berinda! Understand that the purpose of these renamings is precisely the rediscovery of figures and enlightenment. I hope that for all of us, no matter where exactly the decommunization takes place, and in Krasny in particular, this will become an opportunity to find out, and not collect signatures to protest.
If the residents are still against Berinda, but the city council is ready to meet both sides, would you suggest, perhaps, another option, another figure for the name of the street?
For now, it is necessary to explain why not the Berindas: there is a decision of a public hearing. Opposing Berinda, whose life was entirely serving Ukraine, the Ukrainian language, Ukrainian culture, is quite difficult. I know that instead of Berinda there were proposals from the July, Youth, Cathedral. While our conversation is published, I'm sure there will be more.
How is the case going now and how can it end?
There will be a session where local deputies will consider both the legitimacy of the decision of the public hearing and the authority of Pamva Berinda. The Secretariat of the Language Ombudsman of Ukraine and Taras Kremen are acquainted with the authority of Pamva Berinda, as well as with the situation as a whole, of course.
Yulia Slivka expects Berindi in Red to be/Photo by Natalie Bodnar, Channel 24
Russians came to enslave us us or at least kill us – about the war
Everyone who has been following you for more than a year knows that you have always had a pro-Ukrainian position and constantly confirmed it online and in public. However, there are also Ukrainians who, until February 24, pretended that everything was fine in the country and Russia was not the aggressor, but with the invasion of them, everything changed dramatically. How did you personally react to such changes in society? Did you believe that Ukrainians are so aware of themselves as a nation in the 30th year of independence, but only when rockets began to fly over their heads?
I can’t cover everyone, but among them there are both those who benefit from changing their shoes, and those who could simply not know their history and suffer from their naivety. The war from Russia came as a surprise to naive people. Of course, I also hoped that war would be impossible in our time, but it was always clear to me who the enemy was; even before 2014, always. I was able to be born in those conditions that gave this valuable understanding. Sometimes it even seems that I was born with this understanding. Someone became a patriot only with the beginning of the war, only because of acute pain, only because of indignation, but every Ukrainian has his own way to self-realization and no one here is better or worse. Only the accomplishment matters.
What, in your opinion, Ukrainians may have been doing wrong during the whole period of independence? Was there any wrong turn? And who, if you don't ask, did the Russian language play a decisive role here in certain regions?
The Russians came to enslave us, or at least kill us. It is their permanent desire, clearly evidenced by history for many centuries, that is the reason for the invasion. There are no other reasons. If I were talking about victimhood; about the fact that the reason is in Ukraine itself (the reason is in me), now in no case will I allow myself to blame the victim of rape when the rapist is to blame.
I was imprudent at the beginning of the war to impulsively publish a language map of Ukraine. The intention was good – I wanted to explain the importance of speaking Ukrainian in such a way that they would not come to save you as a “compatriot”, but I chose, to put it mildly, not the best way for this. This is not the way to explain the weight of speech. Speaking Ukrainian is vital! But the weight of language cannot be explained by blaming.
After all, they would have attacked even if everyone in Ukraine spoke Ukrainian. They would have come up with another excuse, but they would have attacked in the same way as when Kharkiv was completely Ukrainian-speaking. Did anyone deserve a war on a linguistic basis? No: no one can deserve war under any circumstances. But speaking Ukrainian, switching to Ukrainian now and always is critically important. Ukrainian is unity with Ukraine, and Russian is unity with the “Russian world”, and I don't know how to explain it even more intelligibly.
Ukrainian performs a national function. It seems to some that the language separates, but Ukrainian unites. He does not prevent the war, but helps to defeat Russia; exactly.
< em>Julia Slivka always understood who was the enemy in her country/Photo by Natalie Bodnar, Channel 24 “instagram-bubble”?
None. I filtered before, and especially from the standpoint of politics, for me this is important. So much so that for more than ten years I have not communicated with relatives who for some reason left for Russia at one time (I don’t know the details). Relatives showed up on the first day of the war with the narrative “non-war”, but “non-war” is about nothing. So, I had to say goodbye forever.
Why should bloggers and other public people talk about war and language?
< p>For they influence not only locally, but also globally, tweets in English definitely influence the world community. This also affects the war directly. In addition to the fact that money collections are being closed, this is the information front of the war. Language front, one of the main fronts! And they should talk about politics even before the war, instead of delicately bypassing it, being outside of politics. We don't have the kind of neighbor you can ever be out of politics with. Now it has become clear, finally, to everyone. And it's not just bloggers who should be speaking now, everyone. This is one way to be useful in this war. It is only important to choose the right narratives, because there are times when it is better to just remain silent.
This is a muscle and it is pumped with practice – how to switch to Ukrainian and realize it as a native
The language is relevant, everyone understands this, and many Ukrainians are taking steps to switch to it. However, we remember that you briefly commented on the strange position of Efrosinina and Polyakova. Now Efrosinina says that it was beneficial for someone to be desecrated at such a difficult time, while she is doing other good deeds. What can you say about this?
So, I remember how Masha Efrosinina and Olya Polyakova “substantiated” their rejection of Ukrainian in one of the episodes of a joint show on YouTube: “they difficult, the thoughts are not as deep and the jokes are not as funny.”
Firstly, during the war for national identity, when everything Ukrainian is being destroyed as Nazi, especially culture as such, Masha and Olya broadcast the unimportance of preserving the Ukrainian language by speaking it. Currently, they proclaim rashist as the norm, which is what Russian is claimed in Ukraine.
Secondly, Masha and Olya neutralize the efforts, and to a certain extent the feat, of hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians, who naturally decided switch to Ukrainian. Instead of supporting and setting the trend, they say this: well, in principle, it was possible not to cross.
Slivka about the situation with the Russian language in the public segment/Photo by Natalie Bodnar, Channel 24
Thirdly, with a light passage that they cannot formulate “deep” thoughts in Ukrainian, Masha and Olya reject the language (or themselves) around 1798, when there was a wild warning that the Ukrainian language was incapable of conveying subtle meanings and generally refers only to the life of the Little Russians (then Ivan Kotlyarevsky wrote the Aeneid out of protest), instead of just teaching, practicing Ukrainian in order to master it qualitatively.
I do not comment on the choice of the language of ordinary Ukrainians, and I think that you need to get to this on your own, but Masha and Olya are not average. They are public, influential, so they are ready to explain why this is not okay. An express course on the history of Ukraine and the Ukrainian language, so to speak.
In response to such statements to public figures, we must declare the need for content in Ukrainian. They should see this request.
How to find the boundary between a harsh Russian-language hate and calls to switch to Ukrainian?
I am against the hate in general, and even more so against the hate for the language. This is not only ineffective, but has the opposite effect – it generates resistance to speaking in their native language. Because Ukrainian is my mother tongue. Many Russian-speaking Ukrainians think that speaking Ukrainian is fighting against themselves, but if you plunge into the history of your family, you will see that your ancestors were Ukrainian-speaking.
They became Russian-speaking by violent means. Speaking Ukrainian means returning to yourself. Ukrainian may not be the language of your parents, but it may be the language of your children. I am in favor of explaining the language in such a way – in a balanced way, in fact, without unnecessary emotions and definitely without insults. As for public figures, I like cancel culture, or simply boycott. For they do not always understand the language of love, but always the language of money and lack of views. Instead of public ones, you can simply become persons non grata.
Is there any universal advice for those who affectionately Ukrainianize those who are afraid to do it?
Don't be afraid to make a mistake. Your imperfect Ukrainian is now better than flawless Russian. Do not count those rude impolite people who decided to assert themselves by pointing out mistakes. There will be mistakes, because absolutely everyone has them and from the birth of a Ukrainian speaker, and the language is a muscle and it is pumped with practice. Move gradually, change the language in gadgets to Ukrainian. You can't climb Everest without preparation. Read in Ukrainian, fiction. There are a lot of tips, you need to prepare a publication in your blog about it (Laughs). And advice to all Ukrainian-speakers: be responsive and support those who are passing in every possible way. This is a difficult ideological choice worthy of respect. He try to speak another language! Instant and flawless.
Yulia gave advice universal advice for all Ukrainians/Photo by Natalie Bodnar, Channel 24
They shipped my book under shelling – about the war and book publishing
Let's talk a little about book publishing. The situation with the publishing industry in Ukraine has always been difficult, and the problems have become even greater during the coronavirus, we are sure. What about the war and the book market?
The situation is not very simple. New price tags for books, shortage of paper and Kharkiv, the capital of Ukrainian book printing, is operating under force majeure conditions. I admire them because they work! They also shipped my book “Nibi here, near the hati broke the fly” under shelling. There was no opportunity to make final corrections, there are typos in the book, but this is a very valuable, even historical edition (at least that's what readers say). I didn't expect to get it, but Kharkiv is working. And we are also working. I have many books at work. Now even more than before the war. The war forces you to work harder and faster in order to regularly pay taxes and donate. Under difficult circumstances, my industry colleagues and I rise to the challenge and cover a fresh request for a quality Ukrainian book.
It was during the war that you published your second book-sequel, “Nibi here, where the hati broke the air.” And, despite such difficult challenges, you gave a considerable amount to Prytula's fund. Did you know right away that you would donate the money to charity? Did you personally communicate with Prytula?
Readers have been waiting for this book. “Nibi here, near the hati, broke a little” is a collection of short essays, a definite continuation of the first book “Look, if you come home?”. The reader has the opportunity to see how the characters have changed, because this is the story of one family. And in this family, simple natural things happen: someone is born, and someone dies. No unusual events – just a bitter experience of growing up. If “Chuesh” smiles, then “Litak” rather touches. A paper plane as a symbol of childhood, but not only.
The printing design is beautiful. I frankly knew that the circulation would quickly scatter, so I took advantage of it a little. A few days later, she was able to transfer a tangible amount to the fund, 150 thousand hryvnias. From some circulations of new editions I want to do something similar. I don’t know Sergey Prytul in my life, but I am fond of volunteering. Retold as one of the donates and that's it.
< /p> Yulia Slivka published her second book in Kharkiv, under shelling/Photo by Natalie Bodnar, Channel 24
